NKDA, Wen'shi and Bonk Bonk dive into the Legends and Canon Timeline to discuss the Heirs of the Force: Jacen and Jaina Solo, Anakin Solo, Ben Skywalker, Ben Solo/Kylo Ren and Rey.
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 Today's episode will be about Heirs of the Force.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:29 We'll be talking about a bunch of stuff in both
00:00:29 --> 00:00:33 the canon and legends timeline in regards to,
00:00:33 --> 00:00:37 you know, basically who we think the better Heirs
00:00:37 --> 00:00:40 of the Force were. On one side, we have the solo
00:00:40 --> 00:00:43 trio with Jason and Jaina being the twins. And
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 on the other side, we have... kylo and ray who
00:00:46 --> 00:00:48 are not related also how could i forget anakin
00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 solo on the other side but without further ado
00:00:51 --> 00:00:55 i would like to once again introduce you to my
00:00:55 --> 00:00:58 wonderful co -host for today of course we have
00:00:58 --> 00:01:02 the mandalorian man myth and legend himself when
00:01:02 --> 00:01:05 she on the chat howdy howdy and then of course
00:01:05 --> 00:01:08 we've got our boy bonkity what's up everybody
00:01:09 --> 00:01:11 I am super excited because this is going to end
00:01:11 --> 00:01:14 up turning into a slugfest between when she and
00:01:14 --> 00:01:20 I, because I know we have some dissenting opinions
00:01:20 --> 00:01:24 on the topic, but I feel like there's some common
00:01:24 --> 00:01:27 ground somewhere. It might be hard to find, but
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30 there's common ground somewhere. Somewhere. Somewhere
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 over the rainbow. All right, so let's get started.
00:01:34 --> 00:01:36 So what I want to talk about first is who we
00:01:36 --> 00:01:41 think the stronger of the set are, you know,
00:01:41 --> 00:01:43 as far as the heirs of the force are concerned.
00:01:43 --> 00:01:46 So when she I'll let you take that one away.
00:01:46 --> 00:01:50 Jaina and Jason. Whoa, hold on. Hold on. Are
00:01:50 --> 00:01:52 you being for real? Are you trolling me? The
00:01:52 --> 00:01:55 stronger? Yeah. Yeah. Let's go. I already got
00:01:55 --> 00:01:58 a dub and I didn't even have to fight for it.
00:01:58 --> 00:02:02 That's true victory right there. I don't even
00:02:02 --> 00:02:06 need to elaborate on that. Rey had like one year
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 of training total with Leia who wasn't even a
00:02:09 --> 00:02:13 full Jedi Master. And Kylo's just doing Kylo
00:02:13 --> 00:02:18 stuff. nowhere as strong as jason was so definitely
00:02:18 --> 00:02:20 the the twin all right so well i'm glad that
00:02:20 --> 00:02:23 i i feel like i'm that one kind of threw me off
00:02:23 --> 00:02:26 i really i honestly wasn't expecting you to agree
00:02:26 --> 00:02:28 with me on this one uh so i was ready to like
00:02:28 --> 00:02:32 bat tooth and nail for that one but yeah no i
00:02:32 --> 00:02:35 mean like even if you didn't include jason and
00:02:35 --> 00:02:40 jana like i feel like anakin by himself was stronger
00:02:40 --> 00:02:44 than both of them also anakin died at 16 and
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 was literally okay first off the namesake of
00:02:47 --> 00:02:51 darth vader but second was literally so strong
00:02:51 --> 00:02:55 in the force that basically Anakin dies because
00:02:55 --> 00:03:00 he infiltrates a Yuuzhan Vong base where they
00:03:00 --> 00:03:02 have this animal called the Voxen, which is basically
00:03:02 --> 00:03:05 like a Jedi hunter. Essentially, it will just
00:03:05 --> 00:03:08 kill you and spit acid on you and just destroy
00:03:08 --> 00:03:11 it. So they're going after the queen and Anakin
00:03:11 --> 00:03:14 is like one of three who doesn't survive that
00:03:14 --> 00:03:17 mission. But like while he's fighting off the
00:03:17 --> 00:03:21 Yuuzhan Vong, he's channeling the force so violently
00:03:21 --> 00:03:24 through his body. his cells are basically just
00:03:24 --> 00:03:27 exploding because of so much force going through
00:03:27 --> 00:03:30 them and I feel like that alone is enough to
00:03:30 --> 00:03:36 be like Screw you, Kylo and Rey. I mean, even
00:03:36 --> 00:03:39 if we're not talking about Anakin and we're just
00:03:39 --> 00:03:41 talking about the twins, there's no universe
00:03:41 --> 00:03:46 where Kylo uses Shatterpoint. Just that one power
00:03:46 --> 00:03:49 alone is enough to say that Jason is way stronger
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 than Kylo ever would be. That is true. That is
00:03:52 --> 00:03:55 absolutely true. I always forget about Shatterpoint
00:03:55 --> 00:03:56 until you mentioned it. I think we talked about
00:03:56 --> 00:03:59 Shatterpoint last episode? Yeah, we mentioned
00:03:59 --> 00:04:01 it briefly. But for those of you who don't know,
00:04:01 --> 00:04:02 Shatterpoint is... Actually, you know what? I'll
00:04:02 --> 00:04:04 let Hunter explain this one. So Shatterpoint's
00:04:04 --> 00:04:08 a force ability where through the force, users
00:04:08 --> 00:04:12 of the force can see a weakness in basically
00:04:12 --> 00:04:15 anything, including Beskar armor, which is the
00:04:15 --> 00:04:17 thing that I think is the coolest about it. But
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 through the force, you can see the fault lines
00:04:20 --> 00:04:24 and whatnot down to like a molecular level of
00:04:24 --> 00:04:26 anything, people, materials, whatnot. And it
00:04:26 --> 00:04:29 shows you they're weak. And if just by tapping
00:04:29 --> 00:04:31 that weak point with a lightsaber or whatever,
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34 your fingers, whatnot, you can basically shatter
00:04:34 --> 00:04:36 the whole thing or destroy anything can, you
00:04:36 --> 00:04:38 know, view with that power. It's very, very strong.
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 Luke was able to use it. Jason was able to use
00:04:41 --> 00:04:44 it. Who else was? Jaina used it once. Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:44 --> 00:04:46 I can't think of anyone else besides Mace Windu
00:04:46 --> 00:04:49 who used, oh, Depa Balaba could use it. All right.
00:04:49 --> 00:04:53 So following that, do you think that the Solo
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 siblings also had, do you think that they have
00:04:56 --> 00:04:59 more? force potential than the other set yes
00:04:59 --> 00:05:03 okay the reason why i asked is i there's always
00:05:03 --> 00:05:08 something in my mind that because ray is the
00:05:08 --> 00:05:12 granddaughter of palpatine who is the culmination
00:05:12 --> 00:05:16 of everything dark side ever part of me feels
00:05:16 --> 00:05:20 like at some point she may have had more force
00:05:20 --> 00:05:24 potential than the solo siblings but only if
00:05:24 --> 00:05:27 she went to the dark side Like, you know how
00:05:27 --> 00:05:29 we get that little flash preview of Dark Empress
00:05:29 --> 00:05:32 Rey? Like, I feel like Dark Empress Rey, it's
00:05:32 --> 00:05:34 possible for her to be stronger than the Solo
00:05:34 --> 00:05:36 twins, but I feel like the route that she went
00:05:36 --> 00:05:40 does not yield the same results, if that makes
00:05:40 --> 00:05:42 sense. That's fair. What are your thoughts on
00:05:42 --> 00:05:45 that? That's fair. Yes, I agree. However, we
00:05:45 --> 00:05:49 haven't seen Rey at her full potential yet, and
00:05:49 --> 00:05:52 there is that future movie where we will see
00:05:52 --> 00:05:56 more of her, like, as a fully trained... jedi
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 master not just trade for a year by leia and
00:05:59 --> 00:06:03 like two weeks by luke wait so we are getting
00:06:03 --> 00:06:05 we're getting ray content yeah there's a there's
00:06:05 --> 00:06:09 a movie coming eventually that is ray continuing
00:06:09 --> 00:06:11 the jedi like rebuilding the jedi order i didn't
00:06:11 --> 00:06:14 know that because i don't know if you know this
00:06:14 --> 00:06:18 but as far as books go in the disney canon as
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 of now there is no book after the rise of skywalker
00:06:21 --> 00:06:25 like rise of skywalker currently to my knowledge
00:06:25 --> 00:06:27 at least like i check it at least once a month
00:06:27 --> 00:06:30 is like it is the current canonic end so that
00:06:30 --> 00:06:31 that's what that's why i asked there probably
00:06:31 --> 00:06:33 won't be either yeah there probably won't be
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 either because they wouldn't want to have some
00:06:36 --> 00:06:39 author write a book that they may then have to
00:06:39 --> 00:06:41 go back and change something that the author
00:06:41 --> 00:06:44 wrote in their movie if halfway through Through,
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 you know, recording, they decide like, oh, we're
00:06:47 --> 00:06:49 going to change this bit of the story. And then
00:06:49 --> 00:06:52 they have to go back and redact everything from
00:06:52 --> 00:06:54 XYZ book. And then we have a Legends versus Canon
00:06:54 --> 00:06:58 thing all over. So they're focusing on the High
00:06:58 --> 00:07:00 Republic era so that they don't have to worry
00:07:00 --> 00:07:03 about like continuity issues with new movies.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:05 But they definitely announced at the Star Wars
00:07:05 --> 00:07:08 convention, I forget what it's called, but announced
00:07:08 --> 00:07:11 a Rey movie in the future where she's rebuilding
00:07:11 --> 00:07:14 the Order. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, but you know
00:07:14 --> 00:07:16 Disney, though. They're definitely going to have
00:07:16 --> 00:07:19 to do something after the fact. The book might
00:07:19 --> 00:07:22 just come after the movie. That's what I'm saying.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:24 Oh, okay. Yes. Yeah. And I was just a little
00:07:24 --> 00:07:26 shocked to find out that there was something
00:07:26 --> 00:07:29 post -books. Because that was the one thing that
00:07:29 --> 00:07:31 I was like, I don't want to say excited, but
00:07:31 --> 00:07:34 apprehensive of. Once I finished the movie trilogy,
00:07:35 --> 00:07:37 I was like. so what next you know like what do
00:07:37 --> 00:07:39 you do next because like what do you do next
00:07:39 --> 00:07:43 that hasn't been done in the timeline right let's
00:07:43 --> 00:07:46 bring back palpatine one last time i watched
00:07:46 --> 00:07:51 789 again and just still so mad Did the somehow
00:07:51 --> 00:07:54 Palpatine has returned get you the same way that
00:07:54 --> 00:07:56 it got Hobbes? I was ready to just turn it off
00:07:56 --> 00:07:59 then. I was laying in bed. I was like, do I really
00:07:59 --> 00:08:03 want to finish this? It is. It is definitely
00:08:03 --> 00:08:06 possible that Palpatine comes back again. I mean,
00:08:06 --> 00:08:09 in like the Legends timeline, he comes back three,
00:08:09 --> 00:08:12 three times because he comes back one time with
00:08:12 --> 00:08:15 the Shadow Academy. And then before that was.
00:08:16 --> 00:08:20 When he touched Anakin inside of Leia. Maybe
00:08:20 --> 00:08:21 it was only twice. I feel like there was another
00:08:21 --> 00:08:24 time. because shadow academy was the end yeah
00:08:24 --> 00:08:27 yeah okay so yeah so he came back twice so i
00:08:27 --> 00:08:29 mean he's got room for one more entry you know
00:08:29 --> 00:08:32 this is definitely a possibility my my thoughts
00:08:32 --> 00:08:35 is they're going to take like for instance the
00:08:35 --> 00:08:39 vong threat they'll do some galaxy wide threat
00:08:39 --> 00:08:43 or ray's new jedi order and they are going to
00:08:43 --> 00:08:46 kind of back like they'll do for ray what they
00:08:46 --> 00:08:50 did for luke in legends the extra content i would
00:08:50 --> 00:08:53 i would actually like that if they would only
00:08:53 --> 00:08:56 if they stay true to the story like now it's
00:08:56 --> 00:08:58 gonna be really hard because like at at the point
00:08:58 --> 00:09:00 that like the vong war actually does come to
00:09:00 --> 00:09:05 the galaxy luke is bona fide master slash grandmaster
00:09:05 --> 00:09:07 at this point right it's gonna be a little bit
00:09:07 --> 00:09:11 offset with ray not being as established as Luke
00:09:11 --> 00:09:12 was, but I would definitely be down for that
00:09:12 --> 00:09:14 story because I say this all the time. The New
00:09:14 --> 00:09:18 Jedi Order is my favorite section of Legends
00:09:18 --> 00:09:23 Star Wars content. I thought that that series
00:09:23 --> 00:09:26 within the Legends timeline is peak Star Wars
00:09:26 --> 00:09:28 content. And I think they said that the... The
00:09:28 --> 00:09:31 Rey stuff will be set sometime in the future.
00:09:31 --> 00:09:33 It's not going to be like directly following
00:09:33 --> 00:09:36 where she buries those lightsabers in the sand.
00:09:36 --> 00:09:40 So potentially we will see her at peak bonafide
00:09:40 --> 00:09:43 master level. I sure hope so, because that is
00:09:43 --> 00:09:45 one thing that I was really glad when it came
00:09:45 --> 00:09:47 to the heirs in the Legends timeline, because
00:09:47 --> 00:09:51 in that last book, when they're fighting Aboloth,
00:09:51 --> 00:09:54 Luke thinks that he and Jaina are legitimately
00:09:54 --> 00:09:57 going to die. He looks at Jaina, he goes, what
00:09:57 --> 00:09:59 do you think we do now? now Master Solo, like,
00:09:59 --> 00:10:02 the first time he actually calls her Master,
00:10:02 --> 00:10:04 and you know that she's earned Mastery of the
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 Force, and is like, oh man, don't tell me they're
00:10:07 --> 00:10:09 gonna die in the last book, but in the, or last
00:10:09 --> 00:10:11 book of Fate of the Jedi, but they end up not,
00:10:11 --> 00:10:14 like, you see Jaina reach Mastery, she, you even
00:10:14 --> 00:10:16 get to see glimpses of her picking out her Padawan
00:10:16 --> 00:10:20 to train, too, and it's just a, it's like a really
00:10:20 --> 00:10:22 nice thing to see, I mean, obviously, we never
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 get to see that with Anakin, because Anakin,
00:10:26 --> 00:10:28 dies to the vong and we don't see that with jason
00:10:28 --> 00:10:32 because he goes bat crazy and tries to overthrow
00:10:32 --> 00:10:35 the the senate not the senate no the senate yeah
00:10:35 --> 00:10:39 he tries to take over the galaxy from through
00:10:39 --> 00:10:41 political means and like political loopholes
00:10:41 --> 00:10:44 i was like this is the lamest way a sith lord
00:10:44 --> 00:10:46 could control the galaxy like you're gonna use
00:10:46 --> 00:10:49 political loopholes i was very uh underwhelmed
00:10:49 --> 00:10:53 by darth cadis to say the least Isn't that how
00:10:53 --> 00:10:55 Palpatine took over though? I was going to say.
00:10:55 --> 00:10:59 Yes, but okay. But no, no. But Palpatine was
00:10:59 --> 00:11:04 fighting two sides of a whole ass war. Jason
00:11:04 --> 00:11:08 Solo simply went in and was like. oh, okay, this
00:11:08 --> 00:11:10 says that I can do this, so I'm gonna do this,
00:11:10 --> 00:11:12 and that's it. That's literally it. Like, you
00:11:12 --> 00:11:17 cannot compare wimpy, whiny, plant, animal -loving
00:11:17 --> 00:11:24 Jason Solo to my dramatic, galaxy -brained, gay
00:11:24 --> 00:11:26 queen Palpatine. Like, they're not the same.
00:11:27 --> 00:11:30 They're not the same. That's fair. But one thing
00:11:30 --> 00:11:33 that I did want to talk about, too, is who do
00:11:33 --> 00:11:38 you think... in the end, accomplished more towards
00:11:38 --> 00:11:41 what their timeline was heading to. Now, what
00:11:41 --> 00:11:43 I mean in that is, like, if you think about the
00:11:43 --> 00:11:46 Legends timeline, the thing is, like, Galaxy
00:11:46 --> 00:11:49 at War. Well, I guess they're pretty similar,
00:11:49 --> 00:11:53 too, huh? Galaxy at War, big galactic threat.
00:11:53 --> 00:11:55 What's different, though, because there's, as
00:11:55 --> 00:11:58 far as we know, there's no real big extra galactic
00:11:58 --> 00:12:01 threat in the canon timeline, but that's not
00:12:01 --> 00:12:04 true for the Legends timeline because... That's
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 what the entire Yuuzhan Vong thing is. So I don't
00:12:07 --> 00:12:09 know. Who do you think was more accomplished
00:12:09 --> 00:12:13 in their respective timelines? Jason and Jaina
00:12:13 --> 00:12:16 would be more accomplished. Because there's more
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 content, but we haven't seen enough content to
00:12:19 --> 00:12:23 know if Rey would also have a similar pedigree.
00:12:23 --> 00:12:26 Now, you know what? I somewhat disagree with
00:12:26 --> 00:12:28 you on this point. And that may be because I've
00:12:28 --> 00:12:30 watched Star Wars Resistance, which takes place
00:12:30 --> 00:12:35 between episodes six and seven. But I think that
00:12:35 --> 00:12:41 Kylo was probably the most accomplished, in quotation
00:12:41 --> 00:12:45 marks, because his name was still - fear throughout
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47 the galaxy and especially through the first order
00:12:47 --> 00:12:50 which had kind of re -established pseudo imperial
00:12:50 --> 00:12:54 dominance of the galaxy and not only that but
00:12:54 --> 00:12:57 i mean you have the knights of ren too and he
00:12:57 --> 00:13:00 made his name for himself because the galaxy
00:13:00 --> 00:13:05 did not know that he was lan han's kid but With
00:13:05 --> 00:13:08 Jason, Jaina, and Anakin, they all had the solo
00:13:08 --> 00:13:11 last name. So they kind of rode their parents'
00:13:12 --> 00:13:15 coattails to victory, in my opinion. As much
00:13:15 --> 00:13:17 as I love them, and as much as I recognize that,
00:13:17 --> 00:13:20 okay, yes, you have a Skywalker for a parent
00:13:20 --> 00:13:24 and one of the most bona fide smugglers in the
00:13:24 --> 00:13:26 galaxy as your father, which probably gives you
00:13:26 --> 00:13:30 some pretty nice genes, but they still did ride
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 the coattails of Leia being chief of state for
00:13:33 --> 00:13:36 a while, Han being - being Han and then just
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38 the state of the galaxy and the fact that they're
00:13:38 --> 00:13:42 Jedi and have force powers whereas Ben Solo Kylo
00:13:42 --> 00:13:45 Ren whatever you want to call him did not have
00:13:45 --> 00:13:48 that same like smooth like I assume that at some
00:13:48 --> 00:13:51 point yes he did but who knows that Kylo Ren
00:13:51 --> 00:13:54 is fallen Ben Solo that's fair i don't know that
00:13:54 --> 00:13:57 we know how many people know right but not many
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 i would assume yeah that's and that's what i'm
00:13:59 --> 00:14:01 under the impression of also like i think that
00:14:01 --> 00:14:04 although it would be no content like even if
00:14:04 --> 00:14:06 you took like let's say jason if you took jason
00:14:06 --> 00:14:09 solo versus ben solo like jason whips ben solo's
00:14:09 --> 00:14:12 ass in my opinion because that fighting that
00:14:12 --> 00:14:15 the lightsaber fighting if you can call it that
00:14:16 --> 00:14:19 in episode nine is basically me with a lightsaber
00:14:19 --> 00:14:21 currently like i can't do any i can i can swing
00:14:21 --> 00:14:24 it at you and i'ma hope it's gonna hit you but
00:14:24 --> 00:14:28 i mean jason solo jaina solo all trained very
00:14:28 --> 00:14:32 adeptly in like lightsaber arts and forms and
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 stuff and just no contest very fair very fair
00:14:35 --> 00:14:39 jaina was the the saber what was her her she
00:14:39 --> 00:14:43 was the the sword of the jedi jaina solo yeah
00:14:43 --> 00:14:46 yeah there's no way kylo ever got sort of the
00:14:46 --> 00:14:50 jedi status or you know sort of the sith whatever
00:14:50 --> 00:14:53 sort of the emotionally damaged oh no they were
00:14:53 --> 00:14:57 definitely emotionally damaged i that that is
00:14:57 --> 00:15:00 that is congruent between both timelines is that
00:15:00 --> 00:15:04 solo kids is kind of like that's that's that
00:15:04 --> 00:15:08 stays the same So I got a question. OK, what's
00:15:08 --> 00:15:10 up? Somebody who hasn't read the books. Who are
00:15:10 --> 00:15:13 Jason and Jaina's parents? Han and Leia. Oh,
00:15:13 --> 00:15:16 so it's just that. Yeah, it's just that in Legends.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:20 So the way it goes in Legends is that Han and
00:15:20 --> 00:15:24 Leia. about 10 years after the no not even 10
00:15:24 --> 00:15:26 years i think it's seven years after the events
00:15:26 --> 00:15:29 of episode six they have jason and j actually
00:15:29 --> 00:15:32 brick 3po fact check on that but basically some
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 period of time after episode six han and leia
00:15:35 --> 00:15:38 after their little courtship thing where han
00:15:38 --> 00:15:41 somehow ends up the owner of a planet and fighting
00:15:41 --> 00:15:43 with a prince of the hapes cluster for leia's
00:15:43 --> 00:15:48 hand they have twins jason and jaina then a little
00:15:48 --> 00:15:50 bit about a year after that they give birth to
00:15:50 --> 00:15:53 their third child, Anakin Solo, who is touched
00:15:53 --> 00:15:57 by Palpatine while still in Leia's womb. And
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 they both, they're both sets of children, the
00:16:00 --> 00:16:04 twins and Anakin, go off to train in Yavin 4
00:16:04 --> 00:16:09 at Luke's Space Academy, are very basically influential.
00:16:09 --> 00:16:11 Like, without the Solo siblings, you don't have
00:16:11 --> 00:16:15 a one Yuuzhan Vong war. So that's basically the
00:16:15 --> 00:16:18 story of those. Gotcha. So they just weren't
00:16:18 --> 00:16:21 in the movies at all? Basically, instead of giving
00:16:21 --> 00:16:25 Jason and Jaina in the canon timeline, they just
00:16:25 --> 00:16:28 came up with Ben Solo, which I think is funny
00:16:28 --> 00:16:31 because Luke's kid in the Legends timeline is
00:16:31 --> 00:16:35 named Ben Skywalker. And in the canon timeline,
00:16:35 --> 00:16:38 Han and Leia give birth to Ben Solo. They're
00:16:38 --> 00:16:40 just trying to confuse you. Basically. Because
00:16:40 --> 00:16:42 when people were like, okay, so I remember I
00:16:42 --> 00:16:44 was talking to someone. I was like, I want to
00:16:44 --> 00:16:47 get a Ben Skywalker saber because no one's made
00:16:47 --> 00:16:49 one. And they were like, oh, they've made plenty.
00:16:49 --> 00:16:51 those and i was like really send me a link and
00:16:51 --> 00:16:54 they send me a link to ben solo's like silver
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57 saber before he adds the little two sides for
00:16:57 --> 00:17:00 it to become the kylo saber and i was like that's
00:17:00 --> 00:17:01 ben solo and they were like that's what you said
00:17:01 --> 00:17:03 i was like no i said ben skywalker they were
00:17:03 --> 00:17:05 like that character doesn't exist i was like
00:17:05 --> 00:17:09 In my heart, he does. I absolutely love Ben Skywalker.
00:17:10 --> 00:17:12 Ben Skywalker. I guess we could throw Ben Skywalker
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15 into this talk also because he technically is
00:17:15 --> 00:17:17 one of the heirs of the Force. Yeah, I don't
00:17:17 --> 00:17:19 know why we weren't. I didn't even think about
00:17:19 --> 00:17:21 that until just now because I feel like it's
00:17:21 --> 00:17:23 unfair that it's like a 4v2, I guess, because
00:17:23 --> 00:17:25 what other heirs of the Force in the canon timeline
00:17:25 --> 00:17:29 do you have? Yes. Exactly. But no, Ben, now if
00:17:29 --> 00:17:33 we talk about anyone, if I can like gush and
00:17:33 --> 00:17:38 goo, about any character in the Legends timeline.
00:17:38 --> 00:17:44 It is motherf - Ben Skywalker his mom is Mara
00:17:44 --> 00:17:48 Jane the most badass female in all of Star Warsdom
00:17:48 --> 00:17:50 ever period I don't care what timeline you're
00:17:50 --> 00:17:52 talking about and then obviously like Luke Skywalker
00:17:52 --> 00:17:55 is his dad and you know we had last episode where
00:17:55 --> 00:17:58 we talked about how Luke in Legends is just a
00:17:58 --> 00:18:00 completely different world from Luke in canon
00:18:00 --> 00:18:02 so if if you're thinking about the Luke that
00:18:02 --> 00:18:04 I'm thinking of from Legends you're just like
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 oh my god this is the prodigal son man like the
00:18:07 --> 00:18:10 true prodigal son Brick3PO just confirmed it's
00:18:10 --> 00:18:15 three years between the movie 6 and the birth
00:18:15 --> 00:18:17 of the Solo twins. So, like, within three years
00:18:17 --> 00:18:21 of episode 6, the Solo twins are born. So that
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 is the time discrepancy. But just for reference,
00:18:23 --> 00:18:27 Ben Skywalker is born during the Vong War. Like,
00:18:27 --> 00:18:31 legitimately, Mara Jade gets, like, this sickness
00:18:31 --> 00:18:34 that's a Vong sickness. And the only cure is
00:18:34 --> 00:18:38 tears from this, like, former Jedi who went off
00:18:38 --> 00:18:40 with the Vong for 50 years and came back her
00:18:40 --> 00:18:43 name's vergare and the tears are the only thing
00:18:43 --> 00:18:46 that can cure mara so she gets some and then
00:18:46 --> 00:18:48 they try to make synthetic tears which end up
00:18:48 --> 00:18:51 making mara more sick than anything and start
00:18:51 --> 00:18:52 well no it makes her better but it hurts the
00:18:52 --> 00:18:55 baby so at this point mara's like okay no i love
00:18:55 --> 00:18:59 my son save my son me it doesn't matter and then
00:18:59 --> 00:19:03 somehow ben is born and there's like mara's still
00:19:03 --> 00:19:06 sick but she ends up getting better and like
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 immediately as a baby ben senses everything wrong
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 in the galaxy in the middle of the maw cluster
00:19:12 --> 00:19:15 which is surrounded by like black holes and he's
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 just like nope i'm closing myself off to the
00:19:17 --> 00:19:21 forest i'm finna be a regular ass baby y 'all
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 gonna leave me out of this and that's just that's
00:19:24 --> 00:19:28 the story of scott walker as a kid like peace
00:19:28 --> 00:19:30 i'm out like imagine imagine being born your
00:19:30 --> 00:19:34 first thought is nope like i mean i guess if
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 i had the ability to that would probably have
00:19:36 --> 00:19:39 been my first thought also like born taxes not
00:19:39 --> 00:19:42 nope i'm out peace don't want no part of this
00:19:42 --> 00:19:45 i didn't ask for this but i mean even so still
00:19:45 --> 00:19:48 eventually hasn't you know what and the one thing
00:19:48 --> 00:19:50 that i do like about ben skywalker is like he
00:19:50 --> 00:19:53 does have an estranged relationship with his
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55 parents at some point like more so his dad than
00:19:55 --> 00:19:57 with his mom because dad's trying to be like
00:19:58 --> 00:20:02 not controlling, but have that iron fist, that
00:20:02 --> 00:20:06 sort of support that you need from a dad. And
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08 his mother was nothing but understanding of anything,
00:20:08 --> 00:20:11 always on his side, was like, hey, come get me
00:20:11 --> 00:20:16 if you need anything. I'm there for you, no matter
00:20:16 --> 00:20:19 what you may think. And then you see this relationship
00:20:19 --> 00:20:23 turn into him just loving his father so deeply
00:20:23 --> 00:20:27 that when Luke gets exiled from Coruscant, He
00:20:27 --> 00:20:29 wants to be with him. He's like, well, I want
00:20:29 --> 00:20:30 to spend time with my dad. I didn't get that
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 when I was younger because we were at war. I
00:20:33 --> 00:20:35 didn't get that in my teenage years, mostly because
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 I was being a prick and following my crazy. cousin
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 who ended up killing my mom and that's that's
00:20:41 --> 00:20:43 another part like how can your cousin be your
00:20:43 --> 00:20:47 ops like that's that's the worst part too but
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 then at the end he's like yo i want to learn
00:20:49 --> 00:20:51 about the force from my dad i want to learn some
00:20:51 --> 00:20:54 things ends up learning how to like become a
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57 force conduit you end up having ben skywalker
00:20:57 --> 00:21:01 uh learn certain stuff through his his father
00:21:01 --> 00:21:04 such as like learning how to flow walk like Jason
00:21:04 --> 00:21:06 did so he can go back in time and he ends up
00:21:06 --> 00:21:08 learning the things that he doesn't want to learn
00:21:08 --> 00:21:11 just like Luke warns him but you know you gotta
00:21:11 --> 00:21:14 let your son make their own mistakes so I I could
00:21:14 --> 00:21:16 continue to talk about Ben Skywalker for forever
00:21:16 --> 00:21:19 uh I love that character I don't want to hog
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 too much more of you know talking about Ben because
00:21:22 --> 00:21:24 I think he's the most elite heir of the force
00:21:24 --> 00:21:28 period point blank nothing else And that's the
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30 story that I'm going to stick to. He is Luke's
00:21:30 --> 00:21:33 son. So that gives him a lot of cred. Can you
00:21:33 --> 00:21:37 imagine if Luke had a heir in the canon timeline?
00:21:38 --> 00:21:41 I mean, Ben Solo wouldn't exist anymore. As soon
00:21:41 --> 00:21:43 as Ben Solo was like, I'm going to mess with
00:21:43 --> 00:21:46 these kids, Luke's son would have ended him.
00:21:46 --> 00:21:48 Or Luke's kid would have ended Kylo. I think
00:21:48 --> 00:21:51 that's one of the other reasons why I didn't
00:21:51 --> 00:21:55 enjoy the story of Luke as much as I did in Legends.
00:21:56 --> 00:21:58 Because... I mean, realistically speaking, who
00:21:58 --> 00:22:00 is the love interest? Like, who would be the
00:22:00 --> 00:22:12 love interest? I guess we have some Space Roll
00:22:12 --> 00:22:17 Tide fans here. Space Alabama. God. I don't even
00:22:17 --> 00:22:19 want to have it. That's the only interest we
00:22:19 --> 00:22:22 ever saw. We should just stop the episode here
00:22:22 --> 00:22:25 right now. I'm done with this conversation. I
00:22:25 --> 00:22:27 do not want to think about incest Star Wars,
00:22:27 --> 00:22:30 baby. That's not what I came here to talk about.
00:22:30 --> 00:22:33 When I said heirs of the force, this is not what
00:22:33 --> 00:22:37 I meant, man. In canon, that's the only quote
00:22:37 --> 00:22:40 unquote interest we ever saw. Oh my God. That's
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 all we got to go off of. That's what this show
00:22:42 --> 00:22:45 is about today, folks. Theoretical incest Star
00:22:45 --> 00:22:47 Wars babies. I hope you're ready for this great
00:22:47 --> 00:22:53 content. So talking about the powers that the...
00:22:53 --> 00:22:57 twins have versus what kylo and rey have as dyads
00:22:57 --> 00:23:00 who do you still in my words now stronger and
00:23:00 --> 00:23:03 better connection you know a cooler connection
00:23:03 --> 00:23:05 i'm okay this is something that i thought about
00:23:05 --> 00:23:10 a lot actually because i am a little like my
00:23:10 --> 00:23:11 answer i don't think i have a straightforward
00:23:11 --> 00:23:14 answer really i think okay let me say it like
00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 this if who has the cooler one it would be kylo
00:23:17 --> 00:23:20 and rey because and one thing that you mentioned
00:23:20 --> 00:23:22 that made me reconsider is is that i think that
00:23:22 --> 00:23:24 their connection has something to do with the
00:23:24 --> 00:23:27 world between worlds, like being able to pass
00:23:27 --> 00:23:29 the lightsaber to each other. I think that that
00:23:29 --> 00:23:34 is the cooler of the two. However, I feel like
00:23:34 --> 00:23:37 when we're talking about pairs in the force,
00:23:37 --> 00:23:40 the stronger of the power, like it's kind of
00:23:40 --> 00:23:41 weird. Like I guess stronger is not the right
00:23:41 --> 00:23:45 word. The more reliable one would be Jason and
00:23:45 --> 00:23:48 Jaina because even across the galaxy, they can
00:23:48 --> 00:23:51 still sense each other, know when they're there
00:23:51 --> 00:23:54 until. that one point in the Vong war where they
00:23:54 --> 00:23:57 literally rip Jason from the force. They can
00:23:57 --> 00:23:59 feel each other across the galaxy through the
00:23:59 --> 00:24:02 force until that happens. And then when that
00:24:02 --> 00:24:04 happens, like Jane is like, I don't, I don't,
00:24:04 --> 00:24:06 I don't know where he is anymore. I don't even
00:24:06 --> 00:24:08 know that he's alive. I just don't feel him anymore.
00:24:08 --> 00:24:10 And not only that, but like Leia's connection
00:24:10 --> 00:24:13 with her children, like she knows the second
00:24:13 --> 00:24:15 Anakin dies, no one tells her anything. She burst
00:24:15 --> 00:24:17 into tears. Like she didn't hear. And she was
00:24:17 --> 00:24:21 like, oh, my son is dead. And so I think that
00:24:21 --> 00:24:23 the more reliable connection lies within the
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26 Legends timeline. I think the cooler and possibly
00:24:26 --> 00:24:30 stronger because it transcends dimensions would
00:24:30 --> 00:24:33 be the canon side of things. And we never got
00:24:33 --> 00:24:36 to see them flesh out. So they only were connecting
00:24:36 --> 00:24:41 for a few years in canon where Jason and Jaina
00:24:41 --> 00:24:44 were connected from birth for their whole lives.
00:24:44 --> 00:24:47 So potentially they would have been able to flesh
00:24:47 --> 00:24:50 out their power even more. especially because
00:24:50 --> 00:24:54 they were able in a time of need to use it very
00:24:54 --> 00:24:57 effectively like transferring the lightsabers
00:24:57 --> 00:24:59 between each other speaking of our like world
00:24:59 --> 00:25:02 between worlds conversation what i was mentioning
00:25:02 --> 00:25:05 to nikita before was that i think the world between
00:25:05 --> 00:25:08 worlds gives an explanation for the connection
00:25:08 --> 00:25:12 between kylo and rey because the world between
00:25:12 --> 00:25:15 worlds can transcend time and space and the only
00:25:15 --> 00:25:18 way their connection makes sense being it to
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 me being able to transfer a lightsaber over a
00:25:20 --> 00:25:24 gap a physical gap that they wouldn't be able
00:25:24 --> 00:25:27 to pass something between each other is through
00:25:27 --> 00:25:29 the world between worlds where a door in the
00:25:29 --> 00:25:32 world between worlds can go back in time potentially
00:25:32 --> 00:25:35 forward in time we don't know and transcend space
00:25:35 --> 00:25:38 one side of the galaxy to another or to another
00:25:38 --> 00:25:41 galaxy i think that world between worlds explains
00:25:41 --> 00:25:43 their power so The connection between them allows
00:25:43 --> 00:25:46 them to access and utilize the world between
00:25:46 --> 00:25:48 worlds in a way that we haven't seen anyone else
00:25:48 --> 00:25:50 utilize. Yeah, and that's one of the reasons
00:25:50 --> 00:25:53 why I think that if your question is who is the
00:25:53 --> 00:25:56 stronger or cooler of the powers, then I would
00:25:56 --> 00:25:58 definitely have to give it to Kylo and Rey. But
00:25:58 --> 00:26:03 I'll take consistency over cool random happening
00:26:03 --> 00:26:06 any day. That's just me being me. But like you
00:26:06 --> 00:26:08 said, we don't get to see them flesh it out the
00:26:08 --> 00:26:12 way that Jason and Jaina had. time from birth
00:26:12 --> 00:26:15 to just bond and you know have that power develop
00:26:15 --> 00:26:18 naturally and then have it develop even more
00:26:18 --> 00:26:20 when they're actually like thinking about hey
00:26:20 --> 00:26:23 this is my force connection with my force twin
00:26:23 --> 00:26:26 in force space and i'm a force column across
00:26:26 --> 00:26:29 the force galaxy All right, this one's going
00:26:29 --> 00:26:33 to be a kind of weird question, I guess. But
00:26:33 --> 00:26:37 do you think the sex was better in the Legends
00:26:37 --> 00:26:40 timeline or the canon timeline between Han and
00:26:40 --> 00:26:43 Leia? Because I feel like there's a lot more
00:26:43 --> 00:26:47 stress and strife in the canon timeline. Like
00:26:47 --> 00:26:49 there may have been some hate sex involved to
00:26:49 --> 00:26:52 form Ben, and that's why he's so messed up. I
00:26:52 --> 00:26:55 was about to say, like, there's probably some
00:26:55 --> 00:26:59 of that breakup and... get back together you
00:26:59 --> 00:27:01 know the the makeup sex going on and and boom
00:27:01 --> 00:27:05 been solo yeah but clearly it uh wasn't good
00:27:05 --> 00:27:08 enough for stick around oh that's uh i don't
00:27:08 --> 00:27:10 think leia would appreciate the comments about
00:27:10 --> 00:27:13 her kitty cat like that but uh it's just i had
00:27:13 --> 00:27:16 to ask i i just had to ask because like i mean
00:27:16 --> 00:27:19 think about it like yeah han and leia kind of
00:27:19 --> 00:27:22 go through it a little bit in the legends timeline
00:27:22 --> 00:27:25 like specifically when chewie and anakin die
00:27:25 --> 00:27:28 but for the most part you gotta that this was
00:27:28 --> 00:27:32 like the it couple in legends timeline like they
00:27:32 --> 00:27:36 were going around space spying on together infiltrating
00:27:36 --> 00:27:39 like wherever they needed to like playing literally
00:27:39 --> 00:27:42 half the galaxy like fools most of the time because
00:27:42 --> 00:27:45 they were just the smart cleverest but they were
00:27:45 --> 00:27:48 everything mr and mrs smith thought that they
00:27:48 --> 00:27:52 were going to be but in space that is that is
00:27:52 --> 00:27:54 han and leia except they don't want they don't
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 have the hate boner for each other i guess i
00:27:56 --> 00:27:58 haven't seen mr and mrs smith in all honesty
00:27:58 --> 00:28:02 so i can't really give the best analogy but i
00:28:02 --> 00:28:05 mean they were the space it's spy couple like
00:28:05 --> 00:28:07 that's just you know what no it's better to say
00:28:07 --> 00:28:08 that they were like the mom and dad from spy
00:28:08 --> 00:28:11 kids that's that's literally them That's just
00:28:11 --> 00:28:14 how they were. Yeah, I'll take that. That's that's
00:28:14 --> 00:28:16 exactly how they were. Like holding hands with
00:28:16 --> 00:28:18 each other, driving in a minivan off a cliff
00:28:18 --> 00:28:21 into the ocean. Like that's that's Han and Leia.
00:28:21 --> 00:28:24 Yeah. And Leia would just be like sighing like
00:28:24 --> 00:28:26 this again. Basically. I mean, it feels like
00:28:26 --> 00:28:30 at some point her and Han, they knew each other.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:32 So and that's another thing that gets me upset
00:28:32 --> 00:28:34 when I think about like the canon timeline. They
00:28:34 --> 00:28:36 knew each other so intimately. They could basically
00:28:36 --> 00:28:39 read each other's thoughts, complete each other's
00:28:39 --> 00:28:42 sandwiches. or sentences, whatever meme you want
00:28:42 --> 00:28:44 to use. They were just, they were like that.
00:28:44 --> 00:28:47 And I, you know what? That, that in all honesty,
00:28:47 --> 00:28:49 like it's a, it's a side point that I just thought
00:28:49 --> 00:28:53 of, but maybe that intimate connection. between
00:28:53 --> 00:28:56 them that we see in legends that we don't necessarily
00:28:56 --> 00:29:01 see in the canon timeline is why jason and jaina
00:29:01 --> 00:29:05 were so badass like maybe that's maybe that's
00:29:05 --> 00:29:06 a part of it and i mean we don't really know
00:29:06 --> 00:29:09 that because we don't really have as much detail
00:29:09 --> 00:29:12 like there are there are series in the legends
00:29:12 --> 00:29:15 timeline about han and leia specifically that
00:29:15 --> 00:29:18 we we well we okay we've got a new book in the
00:29:18 --> 00:29:20 the canon timeline called the princess and the
00:29:20 --> 00:29:22 scoundrel which is probably just like a rehashing
00:29:22 --> 00:29:25 of the courtship of princess leia if i had any
00:29:25 --> 00:29:27 guests i haven't read it yet so i can't say so
00:29:27 --> 00:29:29 but that's it whereas like in legends timeline
00:29:29 --> 00:29:31 there's a whole bunch of books about the mini
00:29:31 --> 00:29:34 adventures of han and leia together and that's
00:29:34 --> 00:29:36 something that's again really cool you get to
00:29:36 --> 00:29:38 see how they build this partnership but like
00:29:38 --> 00:29:41 in the disney timeline as far as like media goes
00:29:41 --> 00:29:44 all we ever see is episode six after episode
00:29:44 --> 00:29:47 five where they say i love you finally and then
00:29:47 --> 00:29:49 a big gap of time and it's just like all of a
00:29:49 --> 00:29:52 sudden oh leia and han or not together luke is
00:29:52 --> 00:29:56 somewhere in space bump russia so well that's
00:29:56 --> 00:29:58 the thing yeah we don't really know the again
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01 i haven't read that book either so maybe there's
00:30:01 --> 00:30:03 some info in there but we don't really get that
00:30:03 --> 00:30:05 but we we do know that you know typically children
00:30:05 --> 00:30:09 of divorced parents aren't as mentally there
00:30:09 --> 00:30:15 as otherwise well that's why uh that's why uh
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18 kylo is a little a little messed up oh fun fact
00:30:18 --> 00:30:21 about kylo's saber y 'all want to know a cool
00:30:21 --> 00:30:24 fact about it so sabers hum right when you turn
00:30:24 --> 00:30:27 them on when they were making kylo ren's lightsaber
00:30:27 --> 00:30:32 sounds for the movie they took a cat and and
00:30:32 --> 00:30:36 it's meowing and it's purring and they modulated
00:30:36 --> 00:30:39 it to make his lightsaber sound. So anytime you
00:30:39 --> 00:30:41 hear Kylo Ren's lightsaber move around, just
00:30:41 --> 00:30:44 know that that is, that is basically base cat.
00:30:45 --> 00:30:48 That's basically what it is. I have a cat that
00:30:48 --> 00:30:50 purrs really loud and I could definitely see
00:30:50 --> 00:30:53 adding a little modulation to that to get lightsaber
00:30:53 --> 00:30:55 sounds. So I got a question for you, kind of
00:30:55 --> 00:30:58 piggybacking off that, but who was the most promiscuous
00:30:58 --> 00:31:03 of the heirs? Jason. Jason. Jason. He's got a
00:31:03 --> 00:31:07 kid. He was a one -armed queen on the side and
00:31:07 --> 00:31:10 then had a baby who is predicted to be the queen
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 of the Jedi. Yeah, I mean, Jason was f***ing...
00:31:13 --> 00:31:17 Jason f***ed Tahiri also, who was his dead brother's
00:31:17 --> 00:31:21 ex. Yeah, no, it was Jason. It was Jason. He
00:31:21 --> 00:31:24 was f***ing... Yeah, Jaina just had complications
00:31:24 --> 00:31:28 with boyfriends. She had boyfriend issues, and...
00:31:28 --> 00:31:30 But she didn't f*** anyone besides Jagged, right?
00:31:30 --> 00:31:32 Did her and Zach ever f***? Nope. I don't remember.
00:31:32 --> 00:31:35 Nope. Yeah, no, it was just one. Yeah. So yeah,
00:31:35 --> 00:31:37 then it would... Well, I mean, nah, Ben never
00:31:37 --> 00:31:40 did. He wanted to. He wanted to f*** the s***.
00:31:40 --> 00:31:46 Out of Astara. Ben was down bad, but no. Ben
00:31:46 --> 00:31:48 was ready to sacrifice the whole galaxy for a
00:31:48 --> 00:31:53 kiss on the cheek. He was. You'd be like, Avaloth,
00:31:53 --> 00:31:56 you do what you want. I just want this girl.
00:31:56 --> 00:31:59 I just want this space poon. And then you can
00:31:59 --> 00:32:01 eat my dad or whatever it is you're trying to
00:32:01 --> 00:32:03 do. And I think the most Anakin ever did was
00:32:03 --> 00:32:07 him and Tahiri kissed in like a depressurized
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09 cabin that they thought they were going to die
00:32:09 --> 00:32:12 in and they kissed and then they got saved. Like
00:32:12 --> 00:32:13 that's the only thing that they did. So yeah,
00:32:14 --> 00:32:17 Jason is definitely the most, because we don't
00:32:17 --> 00:32:21 even know if Rey doesn't fuck anyone. And Kylo
00:32:21 --> 00:32:23 definitely wasn't fucking anyone because he was
00:32:23 --> 00:32:26 surrounded by his gay homies the entire time,
00:32:26 --> 00:32:29 the Knights of Ren, so. i mean you don't know
00:32:29 --> 00:32:33 he is vader's grandson though we know that anakin
00:32:33 --> 00:32:37 was i guess that's where jason got it from too
00:32:37 --> 00:32:39 because i mean technically anakin skywalker is
00:32:39 --> 00:32:42 jason solo's grandfather also and they was both
00:32:42 --> 00:32:45 behind the galaxy's back no one knew it i don't
00:32:45 --> 00:32:49 know some people knew about anakin and and padme
00:32:49 --> 00:32:53 who the droids obi -wan Who? Obi -Wan. Well,
00:32:53 --> 00:32:55 yeah, but I'm saying besides them, who? Rex.
00:32:55 --> 00:32:58 Rex knew. Oh, yeah, Rex did know. I'm sure Ahsoka
00:32:58 --> 00:33:01 knew. Ahsoka could have guessed it, yes. But
00:33:01 --> 00:33:04 who knew? 3PO was probably in the room one time.
00:33:04 --> 00:33:08 Or R2. They gotta record that space prawn. This
00:33:08 --> 00:33:11 has probably been the most non -PG -13 episode
00:33:11 --> 00:33:12 we've had so far. We've just been talking about
00:33:12 --> 00:33:16 f***ing half the episode. It all started with
00:33:16 --> 00:33:20 that Han question. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. This
00:33:20 --> 00:33:21 is your fault. It's always my fault. You have
00:33:21 --> 00:33:25 so many bleeps on this episode. Yeah, well, you
00:33:25 --> 00:33:28 know what? That's what, uh... That's what the
00:33:28 --> 00:33:30 bleeps are for. To bring this back around to
00:33:30 --> 00:33:33 more serious discussion, who faced the most difficult
00:33:33 --> 00:33:36 opposition out of the heirs? Probably Kylo, right?
00:33:36 --> 00:33:39 Kylo had the whole galaxy at his throat. Well,
00:33:39 --> 00:33:43 I guess Jason did also, though. Well, that was
00:33:43 --> 00:33:45 kind of hard, actually. Jason versus his twin
00:33:45 --> 00:33:50 sister. Kylo versus Rey and the galaxy. Well,
00:33:50 --> 00:33:52 but you also gotta remember, Jason after the
00:33:52 --> 00:33:56 Galactic Civil War. part two he also had the
00:33:56 --> 00:33:59 whole galaxy after him also that's why i was
00:33:59 --> 00:34:02 like right but it was also like some weird plot
00:34:02 --> 00:34:06 by him to get his daughter not to be the the
00:34:06 --> 00:34:08 queen of the sith and doesn't mean he didn't
00:34:08 --> 00:34:11 face the most opposition though right yeah but
00:34:11 --> 00:34:15 kylo killed his parents jason never did that
00:34:15 --> 00:34:17 he killed mara because he couldn't kill anyone
00:34:17 --> 00:34:20 too close to him he went for mara because she
00:34:20 --> 00:34:23 wasn't related by blood a hundred percent but
00:34:23 --> 00:34:26 she was still family he killed his auntie it's
00:34:26 --> 00:34:29 not fair yeah kylo killed han and basically killed
00:34:29 --> 00:34:32 leia he tried real hard and then she died anyway
00:34:32 --> 00:34:35 after she you know did some weird forced space
00:34:35 --> 00:34:37 floaty stuff but the way i see it think about
00:34:37 --> 00:34:40 it like this the first order even at the time
00:34:40 --> 00:34:43 of seven eight nine is still not a majority like
00:34:43 --> 00:34:46 it the size of it is comparable is comparable
00:34:46 --> 00:34:50 to the imperial remnant in the legends timeline
00:34:50 --> 00:34:53 which is like i still a good chunk of space but
00:34:53 --> 00:34:56 not even like a tenth of occupied galactic space
00:34:56 --> 00:35:01 right jason was the head of the current government
00:35:01 --> 00:35:05 at the time the galactic alliance so he was recognized
00:35:05 --> 00:35:08 as a leader throughout the majority of the galaxy
00:35:08 --> 00:35:13 and started a entire civil war and then was found
00:35:13 --> 00:35:19 guilty caused the suicide of the person in his
00:35:19 --> 00:35:24 triumvirate and lived in infamy for the rest
00:35:24 --> 00:35:27 of his life or the rest of his non -life i guess
00:35:27 --> 00:35:31 yes but a little bit of both yeah so like he
00:35:31 --> 00:35:34 definitely had the bigger opposition than kylo
00:35:34 --> 00:35:36 kylo is definitely a close second but i think
00:35:36 --> 00:35:39 jason takes this one also I think Kylo had more
00:35:39 --> 00:35:42 opposition. Jason like politically got his way
00:35:42 --> 00:35:45 up there, weaseled his way in. Yeah, he does
00:35:45 --> 00:35:49 some stuff as the leader, but also the First
00:35:49 --> 00:35:52 Order I feel like was bigger than just a small
00:35:52 --> 00:35:54 portion of the galaxy at that point. And specifically
00:35:54 --> 00:35:57 because like they were in such dire straits trying
00:35:57 --> 00:35:59 to deal with them. And the First Order destroyed
00:35:59 --> 00:36:02 like five inner planets with their big laser.
00:36:02 --> 00:36:05 So they definitely were pulling some weight.
00:36:05 --> 00:36:09 And then Kylo kills - Snoke takes over and then
00:36:09 --> 00:36:12 he has to deal with the whole resistance. And
00:36:12 --> 00:36:14 then, oh wait, Palps is trying to usurp him.
00:36:14 --> 00:36:16 So now he's got to deal with Palps too. Yeah,
00:36:16 --> 00:36:18 but at that point, is he still Kylo or has he
00:36:18 --> 00:36:20 been? He's redeemed at that point towards the
00:36:20 --> 00:36:23 end, right? Yes. He wasn't redeemed until the
00:36:23 --> 00:36:26 very end after they killed Palps. He was trying.
00:36:28 --> 00:36:30 He was trying. Yeah, but at that point, once
00:36:30 --> 00:36:33 you're trying, aren't you like on the path to
00:36:33 --> 00:36:35 redemption? It was such a short amount of time.
00:36:35 --> 00:36:38 The galaxy still thinks he's Kylo. But he got
00:36:38 --> 00:36:42 redeemed. What is Jason's redemption? The last
00:36:42 --> 00:36:45 few seconds before he died. He drops the whole
00:36:45 --> 00:36:50 Sith act to warn Tenel Kha and his daughter about
00:36:50 --> 00:36:53 the virus to let Jaina kill him so that he can
00:36:53 --> 00:36:55 save the people he loves. That was his like...
00:36:55 --> 00:36:58 Very slight, very brief redemption. Jaina knew
00:36:58 --> 00:37:02 it too. If you say so. I still think that Jason
00:37:02 --> 00:37:06 had more ops for sure. I think Kylo had angrier
00:37:06 --> 00:37:10 ops, but I think Jason had more ops. Kylo took
00:37:10 --> 00:37:14 down the entire Jedi Academy or whatever was
00:37:14 --> 00:37:18 there, except for Luke. Jason never did that.
00:37:18 --> 00:37:21 He was trying. He was getting there. No, he was
00:37:21 --> 00:37:24 the reason that Tion and Cam got. he did take
00:37:24 --> 00:37:27 over the the well he didn't destroy it but he
00:37:27 --> 00:37:29 took over yavin 4 they had to evacuate and leave
00:37:29 --> 00:37:31 to that planet that starts with oh that i can't
00:37:31 --> 00:37:34 get the name they had to have osis they left
00:37:34 --> 00:37:36 they had to they had to evacuate but kylo took
00:37:36 --> 00:37:39 down the whole thing he killed them all gone
00:37:39 --> 00:37:41 we don't know how many there were at that point
00:37:41 --> 00:37:43 but kylo killed them all and somehow luke wasn't
00:37:43 --> 00:37:46 able to stop okay if you kill your ops do you
00:37:46 --> 00:37:49 still have ops I thought Kylo took some Padawans
00:37:49 --> 00:37:52 with him. We don't see him. I'm pretty sure because
00:37:52 --> 00:37:55 like I watched, I just watched these like the
00:37:55 --> 00:37:57 last two days. Luke says he takes a few of them.
00:37:57 --> 00:37:59 We need a fact check. Because I was going to
00:37:59 --> 00:38:01 ask what happened to them because like they never
00:38:01 --> 00:38:04 showed up in the movies or anything. I typed
00:38:04 --> 00:38:07 into the search bar, did Ben Solo take? And the
00:38:07 --> 00:38:09 first thing that comes up is Rey's virginity.
00:38:11 --> 00:38:13 That's your search history. No, that's just,
00:38:13 --> 00:38:17 that's what Autofill. Oh, he did. He took six
00:38:17 --> 00:38:20 Jedi Padawans, but they aren't Knights of Ren.
00:38:20 --> 00:38:23 So we never see them. We never see them. Amazing.
00:38:23 --> 00:38:26 That's a waste. Yep. And it's funny because at
00:38:26 --> 00:38:29 the time, the Jedi Academy only had 13 people
00:38:29 --> 00:38:31 and he took six. So he killed the other seven.
00:38:31 --> 00:38:34 How many did Jason kill? How many did Jason kill?
00:38:35 --> 00:38:38 Like at the Academy? Yeah. None. Well, he's got
00:38:38 --> 00:38:41 Mara. Mara on his list. Nobody else? There you
00:38:41 --> 00:38:45 go. Oh, that. uh it was mara and it was that
00:38:45 --> 00:38:48 one she was i forget what her name was it was
00:38:48 --> 00:38:51 on the planet with the other sith lord that cadis
00:38:51 --> 00:38:53 was learning from not learning from but like
00:38:53 --> 00:38:56 that he found out about and then there was a
00:38:56 --> 00:38:59 girl who was investigating with him and anakin
00:38:59 --> 00:39:03 and while anakin is not there jason kills the
00:39:03 --> 00:39:05 girl she used to have a crush on jason you know
00:39:05 --> 00:39:08 what i'm talking about yeah yes not i don't remember
00:39:08 --> 00:39:11 the name but yes so he's got a two body count
00:39:11 --> 00:39:15 where Kylo's got seven. Eight if you count Leia.
00:39:15 --> 00:39:18 This dude was in space wars and killing ships.
00:39:19 --> 00:39:21 There's thousands right there. Kylo's in space
00:39:21 --> 00:39:26 wars. Kylo's first order destroyed five whole
00:39:26 --> 00:39:30 planets. What did Jason do? Jason changed the
00:39:30 --> 00:39:33 flow of time. I win. There you go. The flow of
00:39:33 --> 00:39:37 time. The whole ass flow of time. What is comparable
00:39:37 --> 00:39:39 to that? What did Kylo do that's comparable to
00:39:39 --> 00:39:43 changing the flow of... time i'll wait i'll wait
00:39:43 --> 00:39:50 keep waiting i got nothing i win i win bong bong
00:39:50 --> 00:39:52 did you have any other last questions before
00:39:52 --> 00:39:55 we uh yes okay who had the most messed up childhood
00:39:55 --> 00:39:58 out of all the years i'm sorry jason and jana
00:39:58 --> 00:40:01 didn't know that leo was their mother for like
00:40:01 --> 00:40:03 until they were three years old oh yeah i thought
00:40:03 --> 00:40:06 it was winter yeah and then basically they had
00:40:06 --> 00:40:09 an absent mother since leia was head of state
00:40:09 --> 00:40:12 but they did have a present father which is why
00:40:12 --> 00:40:15 jaina was so close to her father kylo we don't
00:40:15 --> 00:40:18 really know but i mean he probably had some split
00:40:18 --> 00:40:21 parents problems you know honestly at some point
00:40:21 --> 00:40:24 jason and jaina do talk about the fact that like
00:40:24 --> 00:40:26 mom you were never around we basically raised
00:40:26 --> 00:40:28 ourselves like they bring it up but like i don't
00:40:28 --> 00:40:30 know man i feel like kylo takes this because
00:40:30 --> 00:40:33 how the you gonna wake up to your uncle trying
00:40:33 --> 00:40:35 to kill you in the middle of the night that's
00:40:35 --> 00:40:37 kind of I mean, Rey lives in a desert by herself
00:40:37 --> 00:40:40 after her parents abandoned her. I guess. Also,
00:40:40 --> 00:40:42 the amount of times that Jason and Jaina were
00:40:42 --> 00:40:45 kind of kidnapped, too. Kind of traumatizing
00:40:45 --> 00:40:47 there. Every other week, they were jacked by
00:40:47 --> 00:40:50 someone else. Yeah. You'd think they would get
00:40:50 --> 00:40:52 some better security. But you know what? Their
00:40:52 --> 00:40:54 lives were never in danger that I can think of.
00:40:55 --> 00:40:56 Anytime they were kidnapped. Like, they were
00:40:56 --> 00:40:57 always kidnapped with the purpose of, like, No,
00:40:57 --> 00:40:59 because they were always after the parents. Yeah,
00:40:59 --> 00:41:02 exactly. Yeah, they were always after Han and
00:41:02 --> 00:41:04 Leia, not the kids. So I feel like if that's
00:41:04 --> 00:41:06 the case, their lives weren't really in mortal
00:41:06 --> 00:41:09 danger luke was actually trying to kill ben solo
00:41:09 --> 00:41:11 though for like half a second and then he went
00:41:11 --> 00:41:13 back on that all right so you're telling me that
00:41:13 --> 00:41:16 if you showed up to space thanksgiving and your
00:41:16 --> 00:41:18 space uncle woke up in the middle of the night
00:41:18 --> 00:41:20 with a space sword and tried to space kill you
00:41:20 --> 00:41:23 you wouldn't be space traumatized is that what
00:41:23 --> 00:41:25 you're telling me it depends on if he was sleepwalking
00:41:25 --> 00:41:29 or not god also we don't get like the full we
00:41:29 --> 00:41:32 don't get the unadulterated story you know there's
00:41:32 --> 00:41:35 always like two sides to a story and then the
00:41:35 --> 00:41:37 middle ground so we don't ever see At least yet.
00:41:37 --> 00:41:40 I haven't read any books, but I'm assuming we
00:41:40 --> 00:41:44 don't see the true story, not the he said, she
00:41:44 --> 00:41:46 said thing. But yeah, your uncle trying to kill
00:41:46 --> 00:41:48 you. Yeah, that's something. I don't know. Your
00:41:48 --> 00:41:51 parents being Palp's children and you being Palp's
00:41:51 --> 00:41:54 granddaughter and raising yourself in the desert,
00:41:54 --> 00:41:58 scavenging for parts from destroyed Star Wars.
00:41:58 --> 00:42:01 What was the exact question again? Who had the
00:42:01 --> 00:42:03 more messed up childhood? Who had the more messed
00:42:03 --> 00:42:07 up childhood? Rey and Kylo. Yeah. yeah definitely
00:42:07 --> 00:42:09 because anakin had the perfect childhood technically
00:42:09 --> 00:42:11 i mean like granted like his parents weren't
00:42:11 --> 00:42:14 around but like when your parent you gotta think
00:42:14 --> 00:42:16 about if your parent is the leader of the galaxy
00:42:16 --> 00:42:21 and your father is down bad for his wife no matter
00:42:21 --> 00:42:23 what period of time it is like yeah your parents
00:42:23 --> 00:42:25 are going to be away and it sucks that you get
00:42:25 --> 00:42:28 kidnapped because of their political like positioning
00:42:28 --> 00:42:31 but you know what the most you have is some slight
00:42:31 --> 00:42:33 abandonment issues in your 30s i guess which
00:42:33 --> 00:42:37 definitely happened but ray had nothing and kylo
00:42:37 --> 00:42:41 got yeah basically almost murked by his uncle
00:42:41 --> 00:42:44 so yeah I think Kylo and Rey had it had it worse
00:42:44 --> 00:42:47 I think that Jason and Jaina can complain about
00:42:47 --> 00:42:49 theirs more though well yeah it's hard to complain
00:42:49 --> 00:42:52 when your only argument at least in Rey's cases
00:42:52 --> 00:42:54 my parents are dead they're gone they they left
00:42:54 --> 00:42:57 but Jason and Jaina can say like oh you did this
00:42:57 --> 00:42:59 and you weren't here for this and oh you missed
00:42:59 --> 00:43:01 my high school graduation and you weren't at
00:43:01 --> 00:43:05 this prom and you're the reason that 4 people
00:43:05 --> 00:43:08 between the ages of 2 and 17 tried to kidnap
00:43:08 --> 00:43:11 me constantly is it confirmed that ray's parents
00:43:11 --> 00:43:14 are dead yes yeah the bounty hunter whatever
00:43:14 --> 00:43:18 that found them when uh chewbacca gets snagged
00:43:18 --> 00:43:22 by or supposedly snagged by kylo that that knife
00:43:22 --> 00:43:24 or whatever she found when she touches it she
00:43:24 --> 00:43:27 sees basically her her parents dying like that
00:43:27 --> 00:43:30 was their last moments there i don't like that
00:43:30 --> 00:43:33 knife that knife caused so much conflict for
00:43:33 --> 00:43:35 me the fact that it lined up with the skyline
00:43:35 --> 00:43:39 and the destroyed death star all right so that
00:43:39 --> 00:43:42 has been today's show everyone us discussing
00:43:42 --> 00:43:46 briefly the heirs of the force what we think
00:43:46 --> 00:43:48 about each who we think is better in certain
00:43:48 --> 00:43:51 scenarios certain questions and so thank you
00:43:51 --> 00:43:54 for being here for the force unscripted we will
00:43:54 --> 00:43:56 catch you all on the next episode